In the News - Media Coverage of the Euro Break-Up

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Indiana Jones
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Re: In the News - Media Coverage of the Euro Break-Up

Post by Indiana Jones » 18 Nov 2011, 11:58

Nobody is taking responsibility for Europe; nobody is taking true leadership because they really have no clue what to do.

After WWII European politics had this idea about happiness and welfare for everybody. Europe was very hurt in WWI but after a while wanted to regain their powers. Eventually they even wanted to win over the US. Like always in European history they indulged in their individual powers.

Consider this, how many times in history Europe was One Nation without one country predominating the rest?
It was either the French occupation or the German occupation.

Only because of those still present stupid ‘we must win’ ideas, there was a huge political fight during the nineties in the last century that corrupted the original European One Nation ideas.

Germany and France are still fighting over European leadership and Greece and Italy and other countries took advantage of that by doing exactly what they always did. They were self concerned and didn’t care about Europe as a whole.

Now the European citizens are angry over Europe and the lack of European leadership. It is only a matter of time until one leader in one of the countries will stand up for the local people and the European Thought will fall apart.
I'm almost sure that Greece will be the first and other countries will follow.

Reading Armstrong /s European articles I recognized this discord over and over again. It is NOT about money systems and it is NOT about gold but it has everything to do with looking at this problem through the right historical perspective.

The Euro was a WISH that could only be a FACT in a ONE EUROPEAN LEADERSHIP model.
Right now the European Union is a company with 2 CEO/s and several SEVP/s who are all acting for their own benefits but NOT for the common course. Euro money and Euro marked to market gold are only derivatives of a company with no unambiguous leadership and therefore will default together with the company. The foreign investors are selling their shares because they don’t want to invest in a company with no perspective and the markets do what they have always done …. they are shortselling. Nobody but the company CEO's themselves can prevent a total company default. With coming German and French elections I have little hope.

We’ll wait and see.

Indy ;)
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bailouts4ever
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Re: In the News - Media Coverage of the Euro Break-Up

Post by bailouts4ever » 18 Nov 2011, 13:12

I do agree on that. Although I have the impression that the German fight for leadership is less pressing and less visible than the French. It's part of the self understanding that makes France "La Grande Nation" and Germany the "Deutschland AG".

While Germans consider their nation to function like a machine, the French consider themselves as the leading culture of the world. Both perspectives are understandable from the corresponding angle...

It's finally this little something that holds some truth in it - although I do not fear any conflict to rage in Europe any time soon.

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Re: In the News - Media Coverage of the Euro Break-Up

Post by Indiana Jones » 18 Nov 2011, 13:51

bailouts4ever wrote:I do agree on that. Although I have the impression that the German fight for leadership is less pressing and less visible than the French. It's part of the self understanding that makes France "La Grande Nation" and Germany the "Deutschland AG".

While Germans consider their nation to function like a machine, the French consider themselves as the leading culture of the world. Both perspectives are understandable from the corresponding angle...

It's finally this little something that holds some truth in it - although I do not fear any conflict to rage in Europe any time soon.

We
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Sad but TRUE !
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@Bailouts 4 ever. and Indy

Post by Boefke » 18 Nov 2011, 19:59

The only thing I did was telling my view on things occurring today. I see things different as you both do.

As you are both really confident on your views I think it's not reasonable for me to try explain why I have this view. This with most respect.

By the way, do you consider yourself Physical gold advocates, or hard money socialists?
Just wondering :|

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Re: @Bailouts 4 ever. and Indy

Post by Indiana Jones » 18 Nov 2011, 20:55

Boefke wrote:The only thing I did was telling my view on things occurring today. I see things different as you both do.

As you are both really confident on your views I think it's not reasonable for me to try explain why I have this view. This with most respect.

By the way, do you consider yourself Physical gold advocates, or hard money socialists?
Just wondering :|
I respect people who think about new systems, I respect people who think psychologically about the true nature of human mankind and I respect people who think out of the box. I explained that several times already on this forum.

So, I had thoughts about the Internet system, around the eighties and somehow I started to believe in this new communication system. Not because of my thoughts, but because of people that could convince me with true and valid arguments that the Internet would be part of our worldwide future.

Now how about freegold ?

There are just not enough valid arguments to convince me, so I started to think out of the box about what it would mean to the people AND the people who are in charge of this world. You can throw banana/s at a bunch of apes and you’ll notice that only the leader/s of the group will try to take ALL. That/s how the human brain also works. There will always be some kind of dominant ape male/female leaders (the world socialist, communist, dictators whatever) and they always want to have it ALL. There are always different groups of apes (the world countries) and they are always taking care of their own interests at the end. These groups will only share together what is to their different leaders common benefit or what is forced upon these groups.

While the Internet WWW system believers convinced me with arguments around the eighties of the last century, the freegold system believers are NOT. You can’t change human minds without changing their genes so that’s also NOT the freegold solution. Freegold is not forcing austerity upon governments or kingdoms.

For several years now, time and again I had to defend myself. Am I a trader ? Am I a fiatsystem believer ? Am I physical gold advocate ? Am I a hard money socialist ? Am I a fool ? Am I stupid ? etc ……
The answer is NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO …….

I am a human being that isn’t convinced about the freegold system. That should be enough.

Now here’s a question: Who are you and why should I be different ?


Indy ;)
Last edited by Indiana Jones on 18 Nov 2011, 21:56, edited 1 time in total.
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Boefke
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Re: In the News - Media Coverage of the Euro Break-Up

Post by Boefke » 18 Nov 2011, 21:34

I repeat: With most respect.

Clear to me.

You can consider yourself as just you, but people act because of their believes. But before we start here a philosophical discussion.....just forget about it.

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Re: In the News - Media Coverage of the Euro Break-Up

Post by Blondie » 18 Nov 2011, 21:56

Indy,

It appears many people share your perspective. They grasp what Freegold proposes, but they see a fundamental impediment to its function.

To put it in a nutshell:
"Freegold cannot work because human nature will not allow it.
People suffer from too much self-interest, and this self-interest is hard-wired in.
A nice idea unfortunately not compatible with human nature."


Is this not essentially the point you are making?
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Re: In the News - Media Coverage of the Euro Break-Up

Post by Indiana Jones » 18 Nov 2011, 22:09

Boefke wrote:I repeat: With most respect.

Clear to me.

You can consider yourself as just you, but people act because of their believes. But before we start here a philosophical discussion.....just forget about it.
I explained how the BELIEVE system in our brain works in my conversation with Blondie on another thread here. I really tried to believe that the Euro is the next World Currency and that Freegold would price all currencies. It would be so convenient to me. So I tried and tried and tried ….. but I am still NOT convinced.

Only because a freegold system could be so convenient to me I’m on this freegold forum, there’s nothing more to it. However, until now I’ve got questions in return what I believe in.
I believe the Euro and the Dollar can depreciate by 50% and certainly the Euro can default but not the Dollar. I believe the $IMFS can fall apart and pension funds can go broke. But why should I be a hard money socialist because I don’t think freegold will make a change ?
Last edited by Indiana Jones on 18 Nov 2011, 22:41, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: In the News - Media Coverage of the Euro Break-Up

Post by Indiana Jones » 18 Nov 2011, 22:37

Blondie wrote:Indy,

It appears many people share your perspective. They grasp what Freegold proposes, but they see a fundamental impediment to its function.

To put it in a nutshell:
"Freegold cannot work because human nature will not allow it.
People suffer from too much self-interest, and this self-interest is hard-wired in.
A nice idea unfortunately not compatible with human nature."


Is this not essentially the point you are making?
In a nutshell, yes.

But you skipped the funny need of leaders in our community (part of human survival). Leaders who always enforce themselves and will do anything, to make it as easy for themselves as they can.
And you skipped the need of empowerment over the people they control one way or another. They can do that by military force, they can do that by promising anything they can promise and make us believe, they can force us by law etc.
The force they need to stay in control costs lots of money, more money than they (or the controlled people) can afford, so they make up trick and treat (over thousends and more years now). If a freegold system forces them to austerity (prevents them -whoever whenever- in sustaining power), they will kill it asap.

Throw gold plated banana/s at the most dominant apes all over the world and learn them, that they have to share them immediately because they are not allowed to have it all. At that very moment they are not in control anymore and other apes will take over. ;)
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Re: In the News - Media Coverage of the Euro Break-Up

Post by Blondie » 19 Nov 2011, 00:50

Indy wrote:Throw gold plated banana/s at the most dominant apes all over the world and learn them, that they have to share them immediately because they are not allowed to have it all. At that very moment they are not in control anymore and other apes will take over.
Can you restate this?
I'm not understanding this part, but the rest of your comment is clear to me.
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