Moneyness by FOFOA

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Boefke
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Re: Moneyness by FOFOA

Post by Boefke » 30 Jan 2012, 12:50

Published my new post.

http://endotworldasweknowit.blogspot.co ... ndent.html

Feel free to comment.


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Malcolm
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Re: Moneyness by FOFOA

Post by Malcolm » 31 Jan 2012, 06:24

It looks like I need to read more Dutch financial history.

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Boefke
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Re: Moneyness by FOFOA

Post by Boefke » 31 Jan 2012, 21:09

Malcolm wrote:It looks like I need to read more Dutch financial history.
Missing the point here :?:

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Malcolm
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Re: Moneyness by FOFOA

Post by Malcolm » 01 Feb 2012, 05:58

Boefke,

>Missing the point here

Reading your blog entry, and Indy's comment, I was reminded that I know very little about the Dutch experience.

Malcolm

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Indiana Jones
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Re: Moneyness by FOFOA

Post by Indiana Jones » 01 Feb 2012, 11:07

Malcolm wrote:Boefke,

>Missing the point here

Reading your blog entry, and Indy's comment, I was reminded that I know very little about the Dutch experience.

Malcolm
Best you can do is to study trustworthy information. There is a lot available on the internet. I give you 1 example:

University of Utrecht:
Little is known on which credit instruments early modern entrepreneurs used to fund and manage their enterprises.
By using the Dutch city of Enkhuizen 1580-1700 as a case study, this thesis demonstrates that seventeenth-century entrepreneurs used a range of different techniques for this end.

http://igitur-archive.library.uu.nl/stu ... k%20v2.pdf
Everything that needs to be said has already been said.
But since no one was listening, everything must be said again.

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Malcolm
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Re: Moneyness by FOFOA

Post by Malcolm » 06 Feb 2012, 07:28

There is an interesting comment about 'moneyness' by FOFOA in "Glimpsing the Hereafter".

FOFOA writes:
"Currency’s main purpose is to lubricate the flow of value. Gold’s main purpose is to store or stockpile value. Stock and flow. Gold and currency. Currency will also store value for periods of time, but that is not its main purpose. If currency happens to behave as a temporary store of value, that’s only a secondary effect created by its suitability to its primary role."

I think it safe to say FOFOA equates 'currency' and 'money'.

This seems at odds with Duisenberg speech quoted above:
"...money is defined by the functions it performs, as a means of exchange, a unit of account and a store of value."

Note that FOFOA diminishes the 'store of value' function and omits the 'unit of account'.

Malcolm

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Paul
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Re: Moneyness by FOFOA

Post by Paul » 06 Feb 2012, 09:25

I agree with you Malcolm

UoA is very important, we need a uniform one,
the flow of trade needs this, or we go back to the dark ages

most FOFOA readers dont agree with me here
FOFOA himself is convinced € will be the new one

I do not agree. It has to be an independent currency and € is not.
it is also the MoE of the eurozone. we will have strong € policy instead.
the rest of the world will not accept.

we will see
oil will be the key
"Taxes are a barbaric relic of the past"

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Boefke
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Re: Moneyness by FOFOA

Post by Boefke » 06 Feb 2012, 12:56

Malcolm wrote:There is an interesting comment about 'moneyness' by FOFOA in "Glimpsing the Hereafter".

FOFOA writes:
"Currency’s main purpose is to lubricate the flow of value. Gold’s main purpose is to store or stockpile value. Stock and flow. Gold and currency. Currency will also store value for periods of time, but that is not its main purpose. If currency happens to behave as a temporary store of value, that’s only a secondary effect created by its suitability to its primary role."

I think it safe to say FOFOA equates 'currency' and 'money'.

This seems at odds with Duisenberg speech quoted above:
"...money is defined by the functions it performs, as a means of exchange, a unit of account and a store of value."

Note that FOFOA diminishes the 'store of value' function and omits the 'unit of account'.

Malcolm
In fact he does here Malcolm. But beware, As Mises describes Money has only one function......medium of exchange.

That's Mises definition.

And than I also think it's fare to state money (Mises) can be equated with currency. So Mises or FOFOA aren't describing the 3 functions here, only one.

When we look below we can see how Mises sees the other functions of money.

Image

Here we can see the 3 roles of "money" preferred by Mises. Gold is just part of this triangle as store of value but priced by the same unit of account that's pricing the currency (medium of exchange). Gold isn't free here, or better stated, currency still is pricing gold

Freegold is the other way around.

Image

Here Gold is free from the triangle, and has a separate role....store of value. This physical market only, brings us a price (in a unit of account). Than we can compare where we as savers want to go with our currency. When our currency is for a short time fulfilling it's role as a store of value there's no need to convert in gold. But when these prices diverge more and more, more people will move in gold......forcing the issuers of the currency to restore the faith in the currency again.

So Duisenberg is referring to the mental concept of money. But is also stating gold is made for man and for them to value it. SEPARATE!
Just look at the way the ECB is using gold in a separate role. Medium of exchange right, gold left.

Than we have again that UoA discussion Paul is bringing up here. We must agree, Paul and I simply disagree here.
As you can see, the UoA is pricing the currency, and in my humble opinion what that UoA is, is irrelevant. It could be $, € or matches.....

That's the reason I guess why FOFOA isn't going further in detail on this UoA-thing.

As I agree with Paul :o , Oil will do the job here. Which UoA prefers Oil.
But this won't exclude other UoA's worldwide.....

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Boefke
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Re: Moneyness by FOFOA

Post by Boefke » 06 Feb 2012, 13:51

Why can't I edit my post Rasta?

What I wanted to state is Gold pricing the currency, not the UoA......but I think that's obvious.

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Rasta
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Re: Moneyness by FOFOA

Post by Rasta » 06 Feb 2012, 17:39

Boefke wrote:Why can't I edit my post Rasta?

What I wanted to state is Gold pricing the currency, not the UoA......but I think that's obvious.
Not sure, the board settings state that you are able to edit a post up to 24 hours from creation time. Perhaps you have been logged out, disallowing you to edit the post?
Eventually there will be an awakening, a balancing of the scales and a bill to be paid, and for that I hold gold - Jim Sinclair

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