FOFOA

English language haystack
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Rasta
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Re: FOFOA

Post by Rasta » 14 Oct 2012, 21:20

Malcolm wrote:I appreciate FOFOA's efforts to ground his online community in flesh and bones.

Malcolm
Hmm yes. Appreciated indeed. Question is why the coming out now? My guess is, the gold trail is standing still, and as everything standing still in a moving world, it starts to dissipate. As discussed on this forum, the world moved on in ways that Another and Foa didn't foresee, things like derivatives, which in term kept the game going for much longer then initially anticipated. It means that the outlined view by Another (and further explored by fofoa) are much more open to discussion. I think Fofoa is looking for broadening the audience and discussion, perhaps unintentionally, to reflect against a system in motion.
Eventually there will be an awakening, a balancing of the scales and a bill to be paid, and for that I hold gold - Jim Sinclair


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Indiana Jones
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Re: FOFOA

Post by Indiana Jones » 15 Oct 2012, 00:49

Agree :!:

I had a huge discussion with "blondie' on this. He didn't seem to understand that a theory can only be effective if adepted to an ongoing cyclical change. He thought a theory could also work in a standstill, which I totally disagree.
Oh yeah, a radical believe is generally a standstill but does that bring us any good ..... ask the Taliban.. :?
Everything that needs to be said has already been said.
But since no one was listening, everything must be said again.

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Rasta
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Re: FOFOA

Post by Rasta » 16 Oct 2012, 11:28

Debriefed #6 – Aaron

Eventually there will be an awakening, a balancing of the scales and a bill to be paid, and for that I hold gold - Jim Sinclair

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Rasta
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Re: FOFOA

Post by Rasta » 16 Oct 2012, 16:19

Rasta wrote:Debriefed #6 – Aaron
With the greetings to the boys and guys at the gold forum .... If there is anyone left over there?
Eventually there will be an awakening, a balancing of the scales and a bill to be paid, and for that I hold gold - Jim Sinclair

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Rasta
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Re: FOFOA

Post by Rasta » 21 Oct 2012, 21:26

Debriefed #7 – Jeff

Eventually there will be an awakening, a balancing of the scales and a bill to be paid, and for that I hold gold - Jim Sinclair

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Rasta
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Re: FOFOA

Post by Rasta » 25 Oct 2012, 10:45

Debriefed #8 – Poopyjim

H. M. Socialist Unmasked!
Eventually there will be an awakening, a balancing of the scales and a bill to be paid, and for that I hold gold - Jim Sinclair

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Rasta
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Re: FOFOA

Post by Rasta » 20 Nov 2012, 11:45

Debriefed #9 – Michael H

Eventually there will be an awakening, a balancing of the scales and a bill to be paid, and for that I hold gold - Jim Sinclair

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Rasta
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Re: FOFOA

Post by Rasta » 11 Dec 2012, 08:33

Fofoa: Arguments Against Freegold

Time to start a discussion on the feasibility of Freegold, at Fofoa's blog itself.
Rasta said:

The biggest challenge there is, is the amount markets will be let free by the powers that be. Can you ever imagine governments letting go of the control of the oil markets, if they have the power to control it? In the same line, will governments have their citizens real freedom, and choice of wealth storage? If governments can control taxation, and are forced to make the choice of reducing their own flesh, or cut additional flesh out of their tax base, wouldn't governments rely to the latter method? Historically they are.

Just some thoughts to illustrate that Freegold works great as theory, however will have to operate in an environment that is highly controlled. How much control will be allowed?
Eventually there will be an awakening, a balancing of the scales and a bill to be paid, and for that I hold gold - Jim Sinclair

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Re: FOFOA

Post by Adamus » 11 Dec 2012, 09:59

Rasta wrote:Fofoa: Arguments Against Freegold

Time to start a discussion on the feasibility of Freegold, at Fofoa's blog itself.
Rasta said:

The biggest challenge there is, is the amount markets will be let free by the powers that be. Can you ever imagine governments letting go of the control of the oil markets, if they have the power to control it? In the same line, will governments have their citizens real freedom, and choice of wealth storage? If governments can control taxation, and are forced to make the choice of reducing their own flesh, or cut additional flesh out of their tax base, wouldn't governments rely to the latter method? Historically they are.

Just some thoughts to illustrate that Freegold works great as theory, however will have to operate in an environment that is highly controlled. How much control will be allowed?
The future: like the USSR/DDR find your own way in the informal economy. Heading for dead end street.
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Paul
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Re: FOFOA

Post by Paul » 11 Dec 2012, 21:26

I dont'feel like discussing it all again with the same old boys but I like your argument rasta
and I sure as hell like AD's lol

Regarding mining pricing mechanisms, so to sum it up:
The basic idea of FG is, that gold serves as a debt extinquister/final payment for "useless" fiat currency surplus in the savers camp. If flow of gold/imbalance continues in one direction the fiat price is lifted higher and higher in the debtors currency zone, due to the shrinking amount of gold in the debtors zone, but on the other hand reducting the flow in terms of weight. That's what you refer to as a battery (BTW, nice picture), that is more and more charged but never reaches 100%, towards the end the transfered energy gets infinitesimally smaller and smaller (<=energy, thats the physical weight flow).
So far the perfect FG clean room theory.

Now the real world: Mining! Today and probably the next >20yrs. miners will always have an almost constant output in terms of weight. But probably (slightly?) increasing in terms of weight by higher prices (higher prices in terms of purchasing power).
So on one hand we have the infinitesimal weight approaching zero, the FG mechanism for the denumeration of the fiat currency, on the other hand we have the constant weight flow from the mines. We have TWO pricings: one from the savers/spenders hoard/dishoard flow and the other one coming from the mines. The miners are competing against each other therefore having a tendency to push towards an equilibrium just above mining costs (<=in terms of purchasing power). But this equilibrium is just in the other direction of the hoarders/dishoarder ones.
We have two competing equilibriums: Weightflow decreasing between currency zones at increasing fiat prices (<=Freegold) versus weightflow increasing at competing mining costs with tendency of being pushed down (<=Mining).

To sum it up, just like your RPG guru Robert Zoellick said "gold is too cheap....(in mining)".

That are the real world fundamentals. Sure, now you can come up with some la-la-land stuff, like does not matter, since "giants bankrun" due to breaking futures markets, every saver will run, HI, the breaking IMF, nationalizations and all that other assumption you paint to fit your picture (basically all the same stuff you hear from the silver crowd as well). You're free to do so, fine, I stay with the real world. And looking at the mining fundamentals my prediction is a continues 3-6 increase price of gold in purchasing power until it reaches equilibrium with inflation.
Greets, AD
"Taxes are a barbaric relic of the past"

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